Want to know how to write amazing copy that leaves your readers wondering how you’ve read there mind? Yeah, me too, and that’s why I interviewed my friend and mentor, Nadine Nethery, so she could share all of her nuggets of wisdom.

Nadine is the founder of CAN DO! Content. She’s a strategic website and email copywriter for female founders who want to intentionally attract, delight and retain their dream customers.

All while juggling 3 kiddos at home.

Pretty amazing, huh?

Today I’m sharing an interview with Nadine where we chat about copywriting, running a business around kids, how to leave your dream clients thinking you read their mind, what to consider when outsourcing your copywriting and a whole lot more!

Hit play below to hear all the juicy bits!

If you prefer to read, you can skip to the word-for-word show notes here.

Get more Nadine goodness below:

Read the word-for-word show notes

Copywriting is underrated (1:39)

00:00 Jessica - Hi there, it's Jessica from Jessica Haines Design and I'm here with my lovely friend, Nadine, from CanDo Content. She's a strategic website and email copywriter for female founders, and she works with intentional copy that helps attract, delight and retain customers. It's really awesome what she does and I'm going to let her introduce herself a bit more. Nadine, did you want to jump in and tell us a bit about what you do?

00:24 Nadine - Sure thing. Thanks so much for having me, Jessica. Always a pleasure to talk about my favourite thing, copywriting. So I am Nadine. I am a strategic website and email copywriter from Sydney, Australia. I'm also a mum of three tiny humans, so I know that the juggle is real, you know, too many balls in the air at the same time. I primarily work with female founders who want to tell their story and do their genius justice, but usually they're struggling with taking that step back and doing their zone of genius justice. It's really hard as a business owner to take that objective perspective and look at what you do, why it's so important and why it's so amazing. I help all these fabulous women unpack their genius for them and we turn that into website copy that really converts the perfect fit customer into clients and email copy that takes them one step closer to that next logical step each email at a time.

01:39 Jessica - I love that. Copywriting is one of those skills that’s so underrated as a business owner when you're juggling all the many hats, but it's one of those most important things because our words sell at the end of the day.

01:52 Nadine - No, totally. And for many of us, writing doesn't come natural so it totally pays off to hand over that dreaded task to someone who can often whip it out a lot quicker than you can, and also knows what they're doing so they don't just attack it, you know, attack the keyboard, they actually take that step back and come up with a strategy first, then mould the copy around the strategy, not the other way around.

02:25 Jessica - Makes total sense. I did work with a copywriter once and I do feel like she just attacked the keyboard sort of thing and there was no strategy behind it or anything so I know what you mean. I never actually used that welcome sequence ever because it didn't even sound like me.

02:46 Nadine - Oh no. It's so important. That's why you need to get to know the customer, so my customer as in you if you were my client. I actually take the time to get to know them, do some research around how are you're showing up online, the words that you use that are uniquely your, you know. That's the whole point of outsourcing your copy, that it doesn't sound like the copywriter because they've got their own brand style, that it actually sounds like you and no one can pick up that it is written by someone else.

Starting a business around kids (3:15)

03:15 Jessica - Mm-hmm. Makes complete sense. I love it! And what led you to starting a copywriting business?

03:22 Nadine - Yeah. Great question. I'm probably not uncommon when it comes to my path into copywriting. So I have a background in the corporate world and used to love what I do. I was in PR for one of the global automotive brands here in Australia. So I took automotive journalists over to Europe to motor shows and car launchers and, you know, lived the good life in five star hotels and chef headed restaurants, and yeah, a big part of that was building connections with journalists and I absolutely loved what I did.

Then had two babies while I was there and after 10 years was made redundant, unfortunately, which completely burst my bubble and made me doubt my worth, whether it was me, whether I was good enough at what I did, so it really sent me into a little bit of a crisis.

04:24 Jessica - Understandable.

04:26 Nadine - Yeah, especially when you have a three months old. It really is an emotional time to begin with anyway, so it didn't help at the time. But looking back, I'm really grateful that happened because it made me sort of reconsider the impact that I want to have on the world and how I can apply my skills in the best way possible.

So I went on this big purpose searching journey and knew definitely at that point that I never wanted to be a number in the corporate system again, because let's face it, as much as you love your job and your company tells you how amazing you are, in the end you are replaceable, and when they're over you and you don't fit the picture anymore, unfortunately they can just wave goodbye very quickly.

It didn't happen straight away finding copywriting as my thing. I actually started a full-time job with Australia's biggest retailer in corporate sales as well, simply because I had to earn some money and, you know, we all have to pay the bills so I went into full time work. Also fell pregnant with number three, so busy at the time.

But along the way I really fell in love with content marketing and took a content marketing course, thinking that might be my future career path. So social media, blog posts, content marketing based around relationship building and nurturing those customer relationships. Part of that course was a copywriting module because obviously content marketing comes with writing and that's when it all sort of, when the penny dropped, that copywriting actually is a career and people pay people to write things because not everyone can write. And yeah, that's when it all started.

I literally impulsively set up my business without any clients, while still working full time in the corporate world and thought, you know what, I'm just going to put myself out there. I've got my job. I'm going to go on maternity leave. I'll just see what happens. And I pretty quickly found some clients. Many of them, are still with me today, which is fabulous, so we've been together six odd years and I've watched the brands grow over time and it's so good to have those lasting relationships.

So when maternity leave ended, I just went “You know what, I’m going to give it a shot and go all in” and I’ve never looked back.

7:07 Jessica - That's awesome. A lot of my UK friends seem to start business when they're made redundant as well, or a lot of other friends are when you're on maternity leave, that's what I did as well.

07:22 Nadine - It's funny, isn't it? I think us women just go into it, I dunno, looking for something beyond motherhood and the bigger purpose of why we’re here and how we can impact things. And unfortunately, or luckily, the online world is so good as women isn't it?

07:40 Jessica - Definitely. And it's much more flexible than corporate work as well. It’s fantastic.

07:47 Nadine - I love it.

07:47 Jessica - When you have kids, they're unpredictable so that flexibility is needed.

07:52 Nadine - Yeah, it's so, so good. And working with female clients as well, often they're fellow mums and they know what it's like so if a deadline has to be pushed out slightly or a meeting has to be moved, it's never an issue either way for me or my clients and I just love that there's that respect, isn't it?

08:12 Jessica - Yeah, it does makes such a huge difference when you can relate to that for sure.

I love hearing about how you started your business. It’s so fun!

08:23 Nadine - It’s always good, isn’t it, when you go “I wonder how?”

08:27 Jessica - Definitely. It’s nice to see behind the scenes.

08:31 Nadine - Yes.

Top website copywriting tips (9:32)

08:32 Jessica - So you focus on website and email copy. I was wondering if you could share some of your top three tips for writing website copy that actually turned your visitors into subscribers and clients, because at the end of the day, we don't want copy that just sounds nice, we want it to actually do what it's meant to do helping us promote what we do.

08:52 Nadine - Exactly. Yes, there's definitely an art form to websites that sell and convert.

First big tip is stay clear of walls of text as I like to call them. We all know those websites where basically there's only one massive paragraph, there's no structure, it’s in a block format and you basically are put off as soon as you land on the website.

So definitely embrace bite size chunks and a structure that introduces little snippets and little ideas as you go along, with headings that allow the reader to skim read, because hardly anyone actually, as much as it hurts me as a copywriter, many people don't actually read your entire copy, they skim read. So if you can give them the main idea, easily absorbed within headings and subheadings, that means they're still picking up all the bits and pieces without being overwhelmed by copy galore.

09:53 Jessica - I love that. I constantly remind people of that as well, and I’m very intentional when I’m designing to make sure I break it up for people to read through. You can have the most beautiful website in the world, but if you just chuck one big-ass block of text on there, people aren't going to read it. Or you can have the best copy in the world and if you do the same thing, it's going nowhere. I love that.

10:18 Nadine - Exactly. Yeah. So definitely structure your ideas like it's basically taking your reader on a journey, so you know, little snippets that build on each other and then get them to be so intrigued they're clicking that button to reach out.

Next big one is definitely answering the “so what”, I like to call it. So rather than talking about you, how amazing you are and what qualifications are you have, which universities you went to, and which awards you've won, you know, it's all important, but in the end, our readers and clients, they're all selfish by nature, which is totally fine, right? They're looking for a solution, they want a transformation. So Everything on your website needs to go back to that point and answer the so what?

So what's in it for me?
Why you, why should I work with you?
What is it going to impact in my business, in my life?

So every little snippet you write on your website really needs to be about your audience rather than about yourself. Even your about page is not about you, it's about the transformation that you can connect your clients with. So I keep that in mind, making sure everything is speaking to that benefit for your audience.

And very important as well, your website is specifically designed to draw your reader in and so that means as much as you have your brand voice and the way you talk, you need to actually use your audience's language to really build that connection. You know that nodding along feeling, they're reading your website and go “Oh my God, she actually knows me, like she clearly understands where I am. How does she know?”

So actually doing some research before you start writing and getting deep into your ideal client's minds and getting actual buzz words, “sticky words” as I like to call them, to incorporate into your copy so that it's not just empty statements and big claims.

Let's use coaching websites as an example. I always love those. So the big words like “uplift”, “empower”, “going to empower you”, “I'm going to, you know, uplift your sales”, it’s all just empty talk because it’s not tangible. Whereas tangible statements or tangible results you got for your clients or tangible mindset shifts, so let’s say for example “I tripled my leads”, “I tripled my open rate”, that is more tangible when it comes to data, but from a language point of view.

So if you’re speaking to mums, for example, the transformation is “I’m going to help you actually finish your morning coffee before it gets cold”. Things like that are much better than, you know, “actually enjoying the mum freedoms”. It needs to be relatable, it needs to really hit home for the reader and show that you understand them on an emotional level.

Free website copywriting masterclass (13:26)

13:26 Jessica - Definitely. I love that. You actually have a guide on your website to help people get started with their website copywriting. Do you want to share a little bit about that?

13:36 Nadine - Yeah, totally. So I have a free copywriting masterclass. It takes about 15 minutes, it's literally bite-sized and it runs you through the three critical steps it takes to map, to write, and to create your website copy. So that’s beginning with actually mapping the journey, so setting out a structure that supports your reader to get to all the places they need to get to, in minimum amount of time and headspace.

Then basics of SEO, so your website actually gets found by all the right people online, because that’s what is going to get the right kind of people to find you without you having to do broadcasting all the time.

And then it comes down to the anatomy and the messaging as well. So I’m giving you handy pointers for every key page of your website, to make sure that your covering all the points that need to be on your website to build trust and grow your credibility.

14:45 Jessica - I love it. I’ll share the link with this video as well so people can jump over to get that. It’s a really awesome video, and like Nadine said, it’s very bite-sized, which is fantastic.

14:56 Nadine - Yeah, we all don't have time, you know, there’s too many things on to do lists.

14:58 Jessica - Yeah, especially around kids.

15:00 Nadine - Yep, totally.

Getting started with your copy(13:35)

13:26 Jessica - Definitely. I love that. You actually have a guide on your website to help people get started with their website copywriting. Do you want to share a little bit about that?

13:36 Nadine - Yeah, totally. So I have a free copywriting masterclass. It takes about 15 minutes, it's literally bite-sized and it runs you through the three critical steps it takes to map, to write, and to create your website copy. So that’s beginning with actually mapping the journey, so setting out a structure that supports your reader to get to all the places they need to get to, in minimum amount of time and headspace.

Then basics of SEO, so your website actually gets found by all the right people online, because that’s what is going to get the right kind of people to find you without you having to do broadcasting all the time.

And then it comes down to the anatomy and the messaging as well. So I’m giving you handy pointers for every key page of your website, to make sure that your covering all the points that need to be on your website to build trust and grow your credibility.

14:45 Jessica - I love it. I’ll share the link with this video as well so people can jump over to get that. It’s a really awesome video, and like Nadine said, it’s very bite-sized, which is fantastic.

14:56 Nadine - Yeah, we all don't have time, you know, there’s too many things on to do lists.

14:58 Jessica - Yeah, especially around kids.

15:00 Nadine - Yep, totally.

Reading your dream clients minds (15:13)

15:13 Jessica - Thank you. You’ve touched on audience insights before and I’d love to hear what you would say the first step to actually getting to know your audience is and getting all that sneaky intel from them. Would you be able to share a little bit about that?

15:20 Nadine - I'd love to. So the first step is really getting clear on who your ideal customer is. So if you are an established business owner, that makes it all a bit easier because you would know the types of clients that you love working with, the clients that get the best results from your work. Really sit down and think about your ideal customer, what makes them “Perfect”. And then literally tap into their direct insights, so you can survey them.

If it's existing clients, some very strategic questions can get you that sticky language, the sticky terms that you can then incorporate in your copy to make it relatable, tangible and build that emotional connection.

If you don't have customers yet, so you are yet to launch, you are considering writing your own website copy, you're about to put yourself out there, you can still do that research. Again, all it takes is identifying what ideal customer that you want to work with and, very important here, knowing where they hang out online.

Luckily, as I said before, the online world makes it super easy for us to do some non-creepy online “snooping” and actually listen in to conversations that are happening online. Whether it's in Facebook communities that are aligned with your ideal customer, it can also be online forums. If you're an eCommerce business, those Amazon reviews are perfect, so literally suss out some similar products or similar products within your niche and see what people are saying. You know, the words that keep popping up in the reviews, and often there are so many awesome statements in those conversations that you can literally copy and paste them, you can incorporate them into headlines.

A lot of client projects, one-on-one client projects, where I do that research for my clients, those copy paste statements that I've managed to get from the customer surveys or in online forums, have featured heavily in headlines just because they're so good - much better than anything that I could ever come up with. So yeah, that's basically the starting point.

So work out where they hang out and go straight to the source. Don’t assume, don’t guess for your messaging, actually ask them and they’re going to do the heavy lifting for you.

17:51 Jessica - Yep. I love that. I’ve actually just recently gone through your Audience Success Formula course and it goes a lot more in depth into this. The insights I got from that, just going through the survey process, which I did, a month or two ago, has been really fun. Not only does it help with writing that website copy, but it helps you with ideas for pretty much all of your content for social media and everything.

It's awesome and you have so many ideas in there of different ways to be able to get that research and how to organize it, most importantly, because I've mentioned this to you before, but when I was going through, I have never had a way to organise that into a usable format, and I went back and found about a hundred pages worth of notes from previous market research over the years that I've never done anything with. So your Audience Success Formula really does help make that content so much more usable as well. I loved it!

18:55 Nadine - So good to hear. Yeah, it really comes down to going about it in a smarter way, so it doesn't have to take up a lot of time, it doesn't have to be overwhelming. It is a repeatable process and something that you can totally automate down the track as well once you’ve got your systems set up as well. So it doesn’t have to take a lot of time and it’s totally game changing for your marketing, copywriting and content creation.

19:22 Jessica - Definitely. I already had a client survey when we finished working together, but thinking of ways you can add questions into other points of the process can help get that feedback as well, so it’s awesome!

19:37 Nadine - Exactly.

Working with a copywriting (19:37)

19:37 Jessica - Thank you for sharing. I’ll drop the link to the Audience Success Formula with this video in case anyone wants to check it out. I highly recommend it. So if you have never done any sort of market research or getting to know your audience in this way, it’s really fun to do and I quite enjoyed the process.

Another question I had, if someone wanted to actually get started working with a copywriter, how would you suggest going about that sort of process? Any advice you have for that side of things?

20:19 Nadine - Yeah. Yeah. I find it really comes down to intuition a lot with copywriters because it is such a close relationship that you establish over the project and I highly recommend sussing out their website to begin with. So seeing whether they follow my strategic process, that their language actually really resonates with you, that they seem to know your struggles, what you’re going through and why you’re coming to them. So basically judging them by the way they approach their copy.

Then definitely jump on a call with them to work out whether you have rapport, you like their approach, they're asking questions, that’s very important there, that they're generally curious about you, they want to get to know you as a business owner and very important that they are excited about your project and working with you.

Big red flag if you seem like a number and a tick in the box for them, so definitely look at that and then have a look at their service. Obviously copywriters come with different price tags and you shouldn’t have to go into massive debt and overload to get your copy ticked off.

Often there are different levels of working together, so there’s a done-for-you solution where you literally hand it all over, which often comes with a higher price tag. But very often as well, there are sort of those alternatives so where it’s done-with-you, where you potentially do, like my Yours For A Day service, for example, you do some of the research yourself and then I take that to write the copy as well. Yeah, you don’t have to go into debt and there are different solutions at different times of your business journey as well.

I highly recommend being clear on what you actually need and even clear on your future business direction before investing thousands and thousands of dollars into copy, especially in the early days of your business where it’s very likely that down the track you’re going to change direction and then you’re going to regret that big investment, so potentially get a quick fix there just to get yourself out there, work out what you want to do and you can then down the track upgrade once you’ve got money coming in and your more clear on your direction as well.

Starting out with copywriting and a website (22:50)

22:50 Nadine - I’m very big on not selling people into the VIP Rolls Royce of copy when the entry level really does the job perfectly for you right now.

22:54 Jessica - Yeah, I say that's similar for websites as well. Chances are you're going to change your services a lot in the first year, you're going to change your ideal client and everything. That first year is such an experiment overall with your business. Investing a lot from day one isn't necessarily going to be the right decision. You're better off sometimes waiting for a year or so, once you have an idea of your service, your clients and things like that, so I love that you say that.

23:19 Nadine - So true.

23:22 Jessica - Sorry, I’m watching little Miss wiggle around on the baby monitor at the moment, that's why I keep looking down.

23:28 Nadine - Bless her.

23:29 Jessica - She’s laying in the middle of my bed and keeps wiggling up, so I’ll have to go get her in a moment.

Thank you so much for sharing with us today. This has been really awesome hearing some of your tips around audience research and writing website copy that converts and that next step of working with a copywriter when you're ready, which I think is one of those things that will be so good to outsource when you get to that point, and like you said, it keeps you in your zone of genius.

23:58 Nadine - Yeah, totally.

Where to find Nadine (24:01)

24:01 Jessica - And where can people find you online to check out what you do?

24:06 Nadine - I hang out most often on Instagram. My handle is @Candocontent. You can always hop over to my website, candocontent.com, where I’ve got a whole bunch of resources like the website masterclass that you can use to map your customer journey and you know, get started with audience research. All the things. So suss that out. They’re probably the best spots to track me down.

24:32 Jessica - Awesome. Well thank you so much for joining me today. I’ll share all these links with the video and I really enjoyed chatting with you. It’s been a lot of fun!

24:42 Nadine - Thanks so much for having me, Jessica, and now your little one's calling.

24:47 Jessica - Yes. And she’s fully upright on her tummy as well.

24:51 Nadine - Love it.

24:55 Jessica - Well thank you

24:56 Nadine - Thank you. See you Jessica.